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  • #3195 Reply

    Nuno Ferreira
    Spectator

    Hi everyone

    Im having some problems with G6 Tips, anyone having same problem???

    g4.jpg

    #9166 Reply

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Nuno,
    My guess is tip had been dragged across enamel or flashback from amalgam,porcelain,or crown

    #9167 Reply

    dkimmel
    Spectator

    Does this mean the tip is dead? What do tips cost and how long will the usually last?
    Thanks
    David

    #9175 Reply

    Swpmn
    Spectator

    Common problem, and I agree with Dr. Schalter. Most likely the tip in the photo was cracked by “sparking” around metal containing restorations or bases/liners.

    This tip is history unless you can figure out how to polish the tip. Use of this tip will result in damage to the laser mirror, trunk fiber and possibly internal laser components.

    Including taxes and shipping, replacement of this tip will cost approximately &#36100. In my practice, I find that the G6 tip is useful for a range of 36 to 60 procedures.

    Al

    #9180 Reply

    cbuzz
    Spectator

    Hello all my name is Charles Buzzetti and my company Precision Polishing, Inc. is looking into re-polishing the fiber tips for dental lasers.
    My experience is from the fiber optics industry, in particular the polishing of the fiber endface.
    We are just beginning to look into this and I have a couple of used sample tips for Biolase that we will be polishing this week.
    Please do not throw away your old tips. If this is a feasable process we will need as many used tips as we can get to start our exchange program.
    Since I am a complete rookie in this industry any advice or information would be appreciated.
    We have already designed the fixture to hold the fiber, but still need info on what level of finish is needed and the minimum length for the fiber.

    Thank you,
    Charles Buzzetti

    #9174 Reply

    Lee Allen
    Spectator

    Charles,

    I have a few tips you can use since I think this is a viable enterprise but beyond my ability to do accurately enough.

    When you have the process refined, we can help with the parameters of which tips will be worthwhile to restore. For instance a G-4 tip is already short enough and if the process shortens the tip length more than 1 mm it will be of little use to me. Some of the tips taper to 400 microns. Shortening will make the tip wider. How much that will affect performance will have to be seen as to its significance.

    As to the parameters of the polish, I do not know that.

    Good luck. Keep us informed of your progress.

    #9168 Reply

    dkimmel
    Spectator

    Interesting concept. Routinely done with Delight tips. With Waterlase tips < I have concerns about possible damage to the trunk fiber if the tip is damaged durig polishing.

    #9173 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    I have done this tons with a porcelain polishing system with the Delight tips but will Biolase honor the warranty if you do polish the tips and the trunk fiber blows.

    I will tell you it is wild how careful you are when you have the Biolase. I have talked to so many of you and your stories are all the same about the care you use when changing tips, being around metal etc.

    With the DeLight I am not careful and only realized that if I had the Biolase I would be blowing a ton of fibers as I am not ingrained into taking all the steps that you always take with your laser.

    I consider myself lucky because I know that I am a dunce when it comes to maintenance and stuff and I would be having a one on one relationship with the tech as I blow the fibers one after another.

    Here is a photo collage of the porcelain polishing of tips thread…….. Only to be used with DeLight…….I dont want to be blamed by any company for failures. I have done this tons and never had a fiber blow on me in 4 years with my DeLight.

    Glenn

    Polishing tips 2.jpg

    #9170 Reply

    Glenn – you do love that scope! Nice illustration. My thought has been that it would be great if some company could come up with a mounting jig that would hold old tips and polish them for you. You could manually bring the polishing wheel toward and away from the tip with a lever arm, or something. Just thinking out loud. (Damn, there goes my million dollar idea!)

    Kelly

    #9181 Reply

    cbuzz
    Spectator

    Gentleman sorry for not getting back here sooner.
    I purchased a new G4 from my local dentist to look at quality of finish and flatness.
    The first thing we noticed about the new tip was the level of polish ( surface roughness ) is about 3uM. In Fiber Optics we routinely have to polish to 0.02uM. Next was the flatness, this did not seem to be a critical parameter since both ends of the new tip had about 1 degree of angularity. We saw varing degrees of angularity on the used tips we have recieved as samples. Angularity and visual inspection is measured with an interferometer. This instrument will tell us the surface roughness, angularity and flatness. We can even measure the width of any scratch.
    Quality control is something we are very interested in and already tuned for because of fiber optics.

    Our test polishing has gone well and we delivered some Beta samples for testing this week. Should have initial results in the next week or two.

    Undoubtedly there will be some tips we may not be able to polish. Fixturing for all the different models may not be feasable if the volume is not there. The most material we have had to remove to repair a G4 was 1mm.

    Be sure to save all your old and damaged tips.

    Feel free to contact us with any questions, comments or suggestions at 800-675-1099

    Bob Sloan or Charles Buzzetti

    #9178 Reply

    cbuzz
    Spectator

    Precision Tips now has all the equiptment to re-furbish G, S and T Water-lase tips.
    All tips will be sold on an exchange basis or we can re-furbish yours.
    Precision Tips is in dire need of used tips that we can re-polish for inventory. Used tips must be at least 3.5 mm long on the tapered side and must still protrude on the connection side.
    We are currently offering &#3610.00 per used tip that is capable of being re-furbished. So even those of you who do not want to use a re-furbished tip can recoupe some of your money from the old ones. Be sure to save any old tips from now on.
    Our web site will be up in about two weeks. With the option to purchase online coming soon after.
    Feel free to call Bob Sloan or Charles Buzzetti with any questions at 805-466-3055 or 800-675-1099

    Thank you for your time.

    Charles Buzzetti

    (edit by r schalter – combined 2 psots regarding refurbishing service)

    #9177 Reply

    Swpmn
    Spectator
    QUOTE
    I purchased a new G4 from my local dentist to look at quality of finish and flatness.
    The first thing we noticed about the new tip was the level of polish ( surface roughness ) is about 3uM. In Fiber Optics we routinely have to polish to 0.02uM. Next was the flatness, this did not seem to be a critical parameter since both ends of the new tip had about 1 degree of angularity.  We saw varing degrees of angularity on the used tips we have recieved as samples. Angularity and visual inspection is measured with an interferometer. This instrument will tell us the surface roughness, angularity and flatness. We can even measure the width of any scratch.
    Quality control is something we are very interested in and already tuned for because of fiber optics.

    Our test polishing has gone well and we delivered some Beta samples for testing this week. Should have initial results in the next week or two.

    Mr. Buzzetti:

    Have you examined additional new Waterlase tips so that you have a good sized sample to report on polish quality/angularity? There have been some concerns regarding efficacy of new tips. Do you feel that your company may be able to polish/angulate tips better than their unused condition?

    What are the results of the initial tests with the refurbished tips? As has been mentioned, if we polish the distal end of a tapered tip this will increase its width and therefore change the focal spot size application of the laser energy.

    Trying to ignore economic considerations/turf wars but what about Biolase approval of using refurbished tips? We cleave diode/Nd:YAG fibers all day but erbiums are much more “cantankerous”. If the dentist has an extended service contract on a Waterlase and a system failure occurs while using a refurbished tip – will we be covered?

    What are the economic advantages of using refurbished tips? As a reference point, Thursday I purchased my first set of G6 tips in about a year. Not including shipping/taxes the cost per tip was about &#3682.

    Not trying to be a butthead just asking some questions,

    Al

    #9179 Reply

    cbuzz
    Spectator

    Hello Dr. Williams, excellant questions. I will try to answer them in order.

    We have only bought two new tips for testing and comparison. Both were very close in quality and finish.

    Our goal is to provide a quality product at discount prices. We have the equipment to verify angularity and quality of finish. Final polishing is done with an 0.5uM abrasive. Angularity will be less than 1 degree. Since I do not know the formal specifications for the new tips I can only tell you what we will provide.

    Our on going tests with the Beta samples has shown a 100% success rate. I would be happy to send a sample for you to test free of charge.

    Polishing the tapered end was one of our biggest concerns. Since some of the tips come in shattered and we had to remove more than 1mm of media we were not sure what the end results would be. Some of the Beta samples were G4 tips that ended up at 3mm. The dentist who tested this for us found no issues with the shortened tip. He actually prefered the shorter tip as it allowed him to be closer to his work. We plan to offer tips as short as 2.75mm for those who want them.

    If I was Biolase I would not approve re-furbished tips either. This is solely based on financial reasons. The tips generate alot of income for Biolase, possibly equal to the sales of new machines each year.

    Your service contract is with Biolase. Read it very carefully to see if there is an exclusion. Laser and trunk cable failures will most likely occur from contamination between the trunk cable and tip. This can create a reflection that will travel back to the laser and damage the module. Some of the used tips we have recieved from multiple sources have had the short end of the fiber burned away. This was most likely caused by contamination. As with fiber optics, cleanliness is incredibly important.

    We are currently selling tips for &#3648.00 each exchange. Taxes will be added only for customers in California. No handling charges will be applied to shipping costs.

    As you may have noticed that is the exchange price. We will need a used tip in exchange for every one we sell. We are ready to buy any used tips available for &#3610.00 each.

    Thank you,

    Charles Buzzetti
    Precision Tips

    #9171 Reply

    lagunabb
    Spectator

    Charles:

    Sounds like you offer a nice service if the polished tips work as advertised. Regarding your comment:

    “The tips generate alot of income for Biolase, possibly equal to the sales of new machines each year”

    From comments made at the last earnings release conference call, consumables (tips) currently make up a few % of sales so it is starting to be noticable but only at a fraction of laser systems sales. It should gradually increase as the number of installed systems increase.

    #9176 Reply

    Swpmn
    Spectator

    Mr. Buzzetti:

    Thank you for a clear, well-written response.

    Al

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