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whitertthSpectatoryes David, 15/8…. As I remember now the patient had so profound anaesthesia, that I think my etching came from when I upped the power…For a few minutes to debulk the tissue iused 3 watts and the patient felt nothing and I bet thats where my etching came from as i was defocussed….1 week post op comming today so I will post the pic…anyone know why my pic on my computer is clear and when i shrink and post it is fuzzy? Anything I can do?
PatricioSpectatorBob,
I would go with a retreatment wondering if some laser bone stimulation would help. I would include a protocol of topical biocidal irritant to eliminate any reinfection from the top down. Since at a 6 mm plus depth there is likely residual biofilm I would consider a periodontal appliance to maintain 24 hour tissue contact with the biocidal. Food trap? Poor oral hygiene on the mesial?
Pat
vinceSpectatorNice case Glen.
With the 980, did you use water to cool also?
Later, Vince
vinceSpectatorHi Glen,
I like to place 2 releasing incisions, one mesial and one distal to the cuspid, and connected at occlusal side with semi-lunar type design.
Make sure you have enough attached gingiva and apically reposition it and suture it down @ cuspid’s CEJ or as close as possible to it. It will come down with the crown and vary rarely requires a graft.Nice case, thanks for sharing.
Vince
dkimmelSpectatorGlenn 20-30% water is still a bunch of water. I really have no clue as to what is going on. I am sure others know far more. I have seen that too much water slows cutting as others have mentioned. It would make sense that there would be a optimal ratio of Watts to water for the most efficient cutting. As long as you stayed within this ratio your cutting efficiency would be the same with either high or low watts. To a point of course.
In general at the higher watts at least I tend to be defoused and with the low watts focused. It would be easy to assume the energy delivered to the site would be close to the same.
Then again I am just learning!
DAvid
Glenn van AsSpectatorThanks Vince…….yes I did use the water, and thanks for the kind words.
glenn
Glenn van AsSpectatorDavid: I was just giving you a bad time.
In general the highest degree of cutting that I have with the laser is at the highest energy settings. I dont vary the water or air as much as some who own the biolase. We just try to get a nice water spray that still allows visibility when cutting hard tissue but isnt so little that charring or pain occurs.
I am not sure in the grand scheme of things how much the water /air% has on the whole thing.
I havent read anything in the literature that shows that there is an optimum spray. I think visibility is enhanced by certain lower settings and less water buildup etc…….
For me the waters function is to rehydrate and keep the pulp cool, so as long as there is enough water to do that then I try not to change it.
For soft tissue that is a different story. In addition if I had the ability to alter the % of air and water like Biolase users do then maybe I would feel differently.
Anyways David , from what I have seen you have learned an awful lot!!
Take care and continued success.
Glenn
Glenn van AsSpectatorHi Vince: thanks for the comments. I infact did place two incisions and a semilunar inicison at the cervical of the teeth.
I was leary of the amount of attached tissue and had a heck of a time getting it to place where I did. The tooth is coming quickly so time will tell.
Thanks again………good points. Again surgery , flap design isnt really my strength so each and every time I am learning as I go. I know its pushing the envelope but thats how we all learn.
Glenn
dkimmelSpectatorGlenn, I am not going to give you the pleasure of saying what instrument I wish I had today!

Here is an extracted tooth.
Each cut was for 20sec. on the same extracted tooth that had been kept hydrated.
1. 5.5W 90a/60w focused at about 1-2mm
2. 2.5W 60a/30w focused at 1-2mm
3. 5.5W 90a/60w defoused at 5-10mm
It was pretty much what I had expected. The focused at the higher watts cut about 1mm. 2.5 watts was 0.5 mm and the higher watts defoused was the least at 0.25mm(guess). It may not be as obvious but the 5.5 W defoused even though it was not as deep as the 2.25W it was wider. Again as expected in a defocused mode.
So what does this mean? At 5.5W focused I fell like I am coming in too hot and too fast. Leading to a greater chance of sensitivity. Defoused at the higer Watts and working my way in seems slower the the 2.25W. Couple that with the advantage of less water spray, I like using the lower wattage settings. At least for now! I plan on trying this with now changing the water% and keeping the Watts constant. Have to workout some technical problems in taking measurements and in taking the photos. OH, it also meant I got out of mowing the yard today!!!
DAvid



(Edited” target=”_blank”>https://www.laserdentistryforum.com/attachments/upload/web5.jpg%5B/img%5D
(Edited by dkimmel at 6:33 pm on Aug. 16, 2003)
(Edited by dkimmel at 6:34 pm on Aug. 16, 2003)
(Edited by dkimmel at 6:37 pm on Aug. 16, 2003)
2thlaserSpectatorHi David,
Nice stuff, and questions. I just got back from the WCM in Vancouver, and wow, what a meeting! As for the settings, I use the 5.5W for the anesthesia, and make my INITIAL cuts in enamel using 5.5 80%air, and 50% water, not the 90/60 thing anymore. THis is an ever evolving process, and as we learn what works in our differing hands, we pass it on. Real cool. Don’t forget that the focused mode, 1.5-2mm from the tips end, IS the most concentrated energy, therefore, it SHOULD cut a bit faster. For me, I am not looking for ultimate speed, but for control of ablation, not too fast, not too slow, but just right. Everyone’s eyes, hand/wrist motions are a bit different, and so not every setting is a “cookie cutter” approach, which you have proved with your photos. Excellent conversation here, and keep sharing. I will try what you and Kim have shown, and see how it works in my hands. Should be interesting.Mark
AnonymousSpectatorFWIW, I’ll second the 60/30 on the air water. Tried it all week after hearing Kim at the same lunch David was at. Seems like, in my hands, things cut better and more efficiently, especially if we do not use high speed suction at all. With those settings and 2.5-3W (using the slow speed suctionstraw located at the opposite side of the mouth) I’ve been much more efficient doing class I’s.
I think with the higher water settings I was getting too much pooling in the prep or the high speed suction was actually keeping water from getting into the prep and thus less cutting efficiency.
SwpmnSpectatorWill that 980 ablate “optically”, in other words, out of contact as the company claims? Are you contacting the tissue in these photos?
Great composite!!!!! You might just watch it, that thing will probably last for years.
Al
Glenn van AsSpectatorHi Alan…….great question about the optically cutting. I think what they mean is that this laser because it can be flooded on the tip with water and still cut , is not as thermal in its cutting etiology as other diodes.
I know you can flood it with water and have it cut.
I know it is slower to do this than a thermal cut.
I know that the healing is pretty darn good.
As for the rest, I havent played with it enough to really give you a firm idea.
By the way great questions, thanks for the kind words about the composite and just to advise the people here that I will be on vacation for the next week and maybe two, so I wont be around much.
I will return in September though.
Cya
Glenn
Glenn van AsSpectatorGreat thread here guys.
How much of the slower cutting do you think is due to the fact that with the increased water and air it is more difficult to see exactly how far away you are from the tooth. I still think that the magnification is as important.
The water spray should not be flooding the prep and having not seen what the 90/60 gives you it may be that the lower air and water combo gives you both less pooling, and allows for better vision.
I like your pics David, very very well done.
Now in all honesty if HK was a big deal wouldnt the higher water and air levels make it easier to cut??
Again David, awesome pics and I know that was alot of work to do that and the pics are really nice.
You know the defocussed one sure gives you a nice bevel though doesnt it. That is why I like to use caries settings or 2watts or so for enamel bevels in class 4s to decrease the depth of each ablative cut into the tooth. It makes it easier to get bond into each and also in my hands makes it easier to hide the white etched enamel if you use lower settings to bevel.
Cool stuff David……thanks again.
It was too bad that Mark and I didnt get a chance to touch base but perhaps next time. Our schedules just didnt match but we did have a nice conversation on the phone.
Cheers to all and cya in 1-2 weeks.
Glenn
SwpmnSpectatorHey Mark, just bustin’ your chops buddy!!!!!!! I know you were busy but didn’t realize you were sick. Besides, since you didn’t show up there was more cheesecake for me to eat!!!!!!
Al
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