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  • #3206 Reply

    Lee Allen

    I seem to remember about a year ago that Bob Gregg was saying that to really compare these apples and oranges discussion of settings between our lasers, we should be measuring the output of the machine with a PowerMeter of some sort.

    Is this a good idea from a maintenance standpoint as well? Can you tell, for instance, after some months (a year +) that the effectiveness of the favorite settings is getting less useful? And what does that mean other than recalibration by the tech? Will the “holy” fiber or some other vital laser organ need replacing?

    What does one of those things cost anyway? D. Kimmel and I are wincing already.

    #9289 Reply


    Hi Lee,
    Good questions…

    First, the Waterlase Trunk fiber does, like any other fiber, degrade over time. BUT it takes quite a bit of use and time to happen. Usually over a 3-5 year period, with heavy use one might see a 15% degradation in power output. What I have seen is that if you have a Tech come and check your laser yearly, you can tell if it is happening long before you notice any change in output of energy. The most over looked problem though is the handpiece itself. If you don’t check your mirror for “fog” or possible carbonization, due to moisture leaking into it, or by not drying it thoroughly after removal from the autoclave, you can degrade your power at THAT site. Long before the trunk fiber degrades. I don’t have time this morning to go into much more, BUT I have learned alot from the engineers who attend our courses, and will take some time next week if you wish to share a bit more from them. We just sold our house, have to pack, find a rental, new builder, etc…with everything else going on, I have become more of a “lurker” than a poster these days. Missed you and Sheila in Seattle, just got too busy to call back, BUT we need to catch up soon, Lori says hello!


    #9287 Reply


    Lee here is the site

    Per usual I can not remember which model. I believe it was around 1 boat unit or &#361000 in real dollars.Maybe more. Bob will jump in and fill us in.
    Mark is right about the mirrors. I check mine all the time.
    It would be great to have one but!!!!!!!!!

    #9286 Reply

    Quote: from dkimmel on 9:13 pm on Mar. 18, 2004

    It would be great to have one but!!!!!!!!!

    You do remember they’re included on the Periolase , don’t you?:biggrin:

    #9288 Reply


    Got me!! smile.gif
    How about posting a few perio cases.


    #9291 Reply

    Lee Allen


    Thanks for the web site info. It seems that the sensor they have for erbiums may be better suited for the Yag since its specs call for 50 Hz and 2940 wavelength. I will call the company today to see if it is comapatable with the YSGG.


    #9290 Reply

    Glenn van As

    Back from Scottsdale……..

    One great point about the DeLight is the fact that it has a calibration port that gives you a % of transmission of the fiber for self calibration.

    This gives you an idea of how your fiber is doing.

    When you get a new fiber it is around 80-84 % but with time it degrades.

    Tom Haney has told me at below 65% the unit will not function.

    I have had my fiber 4+ years and it is around 72% now.

    Its something we do bi-monthly is to calibrate the fiber on the port included on the machine.

    Its a useful thing that I think Biolase would probably be wise to include in their next upcoming unit, whenever that arrives.


    #9293 Reply

    Robert Gregg DDS

    Hi Guys–

    The model is the PM 600, and it sells for around &#36900 or so. It was designed for dental lasers of all wavelengths from visible through 10,640 nm (CO2).

    Ron is right–we have incorporated a Molectron/Coherent power meter in the PerioLase unit itself, and can be used to validate the power output of another laser device even with a different wavelength. I’ve been told by several PerioLase users that they use its PM to check their erbiums.

    Mark Colona and Glenn are right that these fibers eventually degrade even under optimal operations. And it is great that the DELight has a calibration port to check that.

    But we all have experiences where things “go bump in the night” in our operatories. You know, you come in one morning and the cuspidor is on the floor and no one knows how THAT happened!!wow.gif

    The fact is that there are a lot of things that can cause power loss in our laser systems. Anywhere along the delivery of power to the tissue–from flashlamp pumping to optical alignment to fiber to tips–things can happen that interfere with the optimal delivery of energy.

    It just makes good sense to know–every day– what our lasers are delivering at the fiber tip where the laser’s tissue interactions are very critical to the clinical end result.

    I recently noticed a significant power drop in my Periolase unit. Now, I’m pretty decent at adjusting my techniques to get results in spite of some performance frustrations, but it takes alot more out of me in time, energy, effort, and concentration.

    I checked the power at the fiber tip and had about a 35% power drop! I checked several fibers–that wasn’t the problem. I opened up the cover and found all sorts of “Dust Bunnies”. After vacuuming them out (not blowing them out which can cause static charge accross the circuit boards)–I was back up to full power Scottie……and what a difference in ease of use and manipulating tissue. It was like having a brand new laser.

    But I wouldn’t have had an inkling of whether I had a simple or a major probem if I didn’t even know that I actually had a power reduction, and could do some simple trouble shooting first.


    #9292 Reply

    Lee Allen


    Thanks. Great information about the power meter.

    When I did a general Google search I found a used one.

    Since David Kimmel was the first to be looking for a less that &#36900 unit I should share the infromation with him first and let DK pursue the ebay item 3805384992.

    I think it is measured in JigaWatts.

    From a practical standpoint, with the PM600 how long does the calibration take, what units are the readings in, and how often is necessary? Gradual degradation so once a month (I smell timeshare) or daily or when a problem is suspected like you did over the 35% loss?

    Thanks for the insite, Bob.

    #9294 Reply

    Robert Gregg DDS
    Quote: from Lee Allen on 12:08 am on Mar. 25, 2004

    From a practical standpoint, with the PM600 how long does the calibration take, what units are the readings in, and how often is necessary?  Gradual degradation so once a month (I smell timeshare) or daily or when a problem is suspected like you did over the 35% loss?


    Calibration take a few (5-10) seconds. It is measured in average power (Watts). I measure once in the morning when I’m getting ready with my first patient of the day. I only remeasure when I detect something is not working as smoothly as I expect. Most of the time, the power drop is a fiber issue–a bad cleave or tip, for example.

    And just for the record–I have no &#36&#36 interest in the company or product. MDT doesn’t get any special pricing or deals from the company. I don’t even think they know that I promote the PM600 as I do?rock.gif


    #9295 Reply


    Power meters are a very common product used in fiber optics and can be very low cost. Based on the information I am reading I am sure there are PM’s used in fiber optics that will do the job just fine. I will check to see what is available.
    In Fiber Optics cleanliness is most critical and is usually the culprit if a power reduction is noticed. Contamination can damage lasers, fiber and connectors by creating a reflection or light transmision going the wrong direction.
    Precision Tip’s is in the process of designing cleaning and inspection equiptment for Waterlase users.
    We do need any information pertaining to the mirror located in the handle.
    Is it coated?
    What is the process for cleaning now?
    Has anyone had a failure of the mirror?
    Any additional info or comments would be helpful.

    Charles Buzzetti
    Precision Tip’s

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